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Για την οδηγική μας βελτίωση

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kosagraf
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Εγγραφή: Δευ 07 Ιουν 2010, 01:55
Gender: Male
Bike: Multistrada 1100
Other: Μπανιέρα (SH150i)
Τοποθεσία: Συνήθως ο καναπές... αλλιώς η σέλα μου!!!

Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από kosagraf »

Καλησπέρα σε όλους!!!

Από τότε που ασχολήθηκα σοβαρά με τη μοτοσυκλέτα πιο σοβαρά ακούω τους γύρω μου να αναφέρουν πόσο σημαντικό είναι να είναι οι αναρτήσεις σου οι καλύτερες και φυσικά σωστά ρυθμιζμένες...

Ποτέ δεν κατάφερα βέβαια να ρυθμίσω κανένα από τα μηχανάκια που πέρασαν από τα χέρια μου... Η σωστή ρύθμιση των αναρτήσεων ήταν και είναι για μένα ένα μεγάλο μυστήριο. Ο τρόπος που οδηγάω το μωράκι μου (σύμφωνα με τους φίλους μου) είναι σχετικά γρήγορα. Προσωπικά πιστεύω ότι δεν είμαι πολύ γρήγορος (αλλά δεν είμαι τόσο αργός :whistling: ).

Μέχρι προχθές (πήγαμε μια ωραία βολτίτσα μέχρι το Ναύπλιο) πίστευα ότι το κουκλί μου πάει τέλεια και ότι δεν χρειάζεται να ασχοληθώ με όλες αυτές τις π@π@ριές περί αναρτήσεων κλπ. Το κουκλί μου πάει μια χαρά και ας μην έχει ohlins και ας μην τις έχω ρυθμίσει ποτέ (ούτε κλίκ...). Μερικά γλυστρίματα όμως και χωρίς να έχω μεγάλη ταχύτητα με βάλανε σε σκέψεις και το έψαξα λίγο παραπάνω...

Παρακάτω σας παραθέτω τι βρήκα γενικότερα ψάνχνοντας από εδω και από εκεί... αλλά θα ήθελα τη γνώμη σας αν κάποιος έχει βάλει σε εφάρμογη κάτι από τα παρακάτω και κατά πόσο είναι δυνατόν να πετύχεις την πολυπόθητη βέλτιστη ρύθμιση.

The outline for setting up your suspension is as follows:

Geometry - The framework for a good set up. Geometry is the “hard” setting that you will be putting into your bike. Geometry is the angles and or heights that you plug into your bike. Geometry is 75% of your ideal set up. There are specific geometry settings in either the 749/999 or the 748/916/996/998 sections.

Sag or Preload - Sag can be looked at one of two ways, #1 as a secondary geometry setting. But unlike geometry which is a “hard” setting, sag is dictated by spring rate. Which must be picked and set up correctly. #2 as a means of confirming you have the correct spring rate for your application. The process of setting sag will “tell you” if you have the correct springs. Springs are the foundation of all suspension action. Sag or pre-load will be adjusted with the preload adjusters

Compression - compression dampening is an adjustment to the valving that will increase or decrease the speed at which the suspension component will compress. The compression circuits job is to “control” the spring when the wheel hits a bump, you get on the brakes, land a wheelie, etc.

Rebound - rebound is extremely important, rebound has a huge effect on how comfortable you feel on your bike. The rebound circuit controls the suspension as it is trying to spring back after the wheel has hit a bump, you let off the brakes, etc. The first thing you need to know to get your head around the concept of rebound is to never ever refer to it has hard or soft. From this point on you are only allowed to refer to rebound settings as fast or slow. Do not forget this!

1. Setting Chassis Geometry

To see the appropriate settings, click on the corresponding model numbers: 749/999 748/916/996/998

2. Setting Sag: Forks

Back out the compression and rebound adjusters all the way out counter clockwise. You are doing this to free up the components so it's easier to set the sag. You may want to write them down.
You and one of your friends (we will call him Bob) should grab the handlebars and lift the front of the motorcycle until the wheel is not touching the floor. Your second friend (we will call him Neil) will measure the distance from the bottom of the fork seal to the bottom of the slider where it meets the fork foot. Have Neil do all of your measuring for consistency. The distance between the two points will most likely be 124mm. Write this measurement down, it is your “unloaded” measurement (measurement A). You will be calculating all of your sag measurements off of this number…so get it right. It's supposed to be a constant, not a variable.
With Bob holding the motorcycle by the tail so you do not fall over, mount the bike and assume the riding position (head down feet on the pegs). Bounce up and down a few times to settle the suspension.
Have Neil pull up on the triple clamps a bit and let them go. Take a measurement (measurement B).
Next have Neil push down on the triple clamps and then let it go. Take a fork measurement (measurement C).
The reason you are taking the push down and pull up measurements is to calculate actual sag. All forks have stiction, which is the friction on the fork slider. The stiction will stop the forks short of their actual sag, so you need to account for this. By taking two measurements (one pushing, one pulling) and averaging them you will get your actual sag point. Bikes with the pretty gold sliders will have less stiction than the non treated ones…that's the point of the gold (sorry to disappoint all you pimps out there)
To calculate rider sag use this formula A- (B+C) X 0.5 I think that's right, if it's not blame public skool. But on a basic level it means add B and C together, divide by two and then subtract A
If your rider sag is less than 35mm, remove fork preload by turning the preload adjuster counter clockwise. If you rider sag is more than 35mm, add preload by turning the preload adjuster clockwise. Adjust and re-measure until you have 35mm of rider sag.

3. Setting Sag: Shock

Install your ride height tool in the frame. If you do not have a ride height tool place a small piece of tape directly above the rear axle on the tail and use this as your upper measuring reference point. You and Bob will then lift the back of the motorcycle, by the footpegs or front of the subframe where it bolts to the frame until the rear wheel is off of the ground. Do not lift by the rear of the subframe, you will flex the subframe and get an incorrect measurement. Measure the distance between the mark on the tail and the top of the axle nut. Write the measurement down, it is your rear “unloaded” measurement (measurement D). You will be calculating all of your sag measurements off of this number…so get it right. It's supposed to be a constant, not a variable.
With Bob holding the motorcycle by the front fairing so you do not fall over, mount the bike and assume the riding position (head down feet on the pegs). Bounce up and down a few times to settle the suspension.
Have Neil pull up on the subframe (where it mounts to the frame) a bit and let it go. Take a measurement (measurement E).
Next have Neil push down on the seat and then let it go. Take a measurement (measurement F).
The reason you are taking the push down and pull up measurements is to calculate actual sag. All shocks have stiction, which is the friction on the shock shaft. The stiction will stop the shock short of their actual sag, so you need to account for this. By taking two measurements (one pushing, one pulling) and averaging them you will get your actual sag point. Shocks will have less stiction than forks though.
To calculate rider sag use this formula D- (E+F) X 0.5 But on a basic level it means add E and F together, divide by two and then subtract D
If your rider sag is less than 30mm, remove shock preload by turning the preload adjuster rings (the two rings that are holding the spring in, the best way to adjust them is with a drift and a hammer) counter clockwise (as if you were looking down from the top of the shock). If you rider sag is more than 30mm, add preload by turning the preload rings clockwise. Adjust and re-measure until you have 30mm of rider sag.

4. Setting Compression: Forks

Well, this is going to sound a bit vague, but there is no really good way to set the compression in the pits on your forks without having a ton of experience with it. But we can ballpark it and then test for it once you are riding. Most Ducati's come with very stiff compression circuits, so this makes it pretty easy to find a starting point.
Run the compression adjuster full soft (pretend you are laying on your back looking up at the bottom of the fork and turn the adjuster counterclockwise, or out, to soften the compression). The adjuster is located on the bottom, or to be more specific in the bottom of the fork foot. You will need to run a standard screw driver from the bottom of the fork foot up through the axle. It's kind of a PITA but if you have the right size screw driver it's not too bad.

5. Setting Rebound: Forks

Your rebound adjuster (located on the top of the fork, adjust with a standard screwdriver) should be all the way out from when you adjusted your sag. If it is not run the adjuster all the way out counterclockwise. I think this will be a good time to explain how to correctly “view” the rebound circuit. Rebound is never “hard” or “soft”. It will only be refereed to as “fast” or “slow” from now on. This will help you understand what the rebound is doing. Spinning the adjuster out or counterclockwise will make the forks rebound faster. Spinning the rebound adjuster in or clockwise will make them slower.
So here you are with your forks as “fast” as they will go. To get an idea of what I am taking about bounce the front end of the bike by holding on to the handlebars, applying the front brake and quickly pushing the front end of the bike down. When the forks rebound you need to get neutral on the bars. Do not pull up on the bars or put weight on them when it is trying to rebound. All you really want to do is provide enough input to keep the bike from falling over. Practice this a few thousand times until you get it just right. What you are looking for is a situation where the forks can rebound with a minimum of input from you.
Now that you are the “master of the bounce” you can start tuning the forks. With the rebound adjuster full fast bounce the front end. What happened? Did it rebound back really fast and take a couple of seconds to settle? Now run the rebound adjuster all the way in clockwise (do not run it in hard you will seat the needle and cause all sorts of problems). Bounce the front end again. What happened? Did it take for ever for the forks to rebound back to full extension? Sure did. You have just seen the difference between fast and slow rebound in a set of forks.
Run the rebound all the way out (fast) on the forks again. To set the rebound you need to start from all the way fast.
Bounce the front end, see how it rebounds back past the sag point (the point where the bike sits on its own weight) and then settles down? This is not what you want. You want the forks to rebound right up to the sag point without going past and settling. But here is the catch, you want them to rebound to the sag point without being too slow. The method for finding the right spot is to bounce the front end, check, add a click, bounce the front end, check……..until you get the front end too just come up to the sag point without going past. When you have the front end rebounding right to the sag point, speed it up one click just to check your work. If speeding it up the one click lets the forks rebound past the sag point just a touch you had it right. Add back the click you took out and you are done. Above all you are looking for the rebound circuit to control the springs in the forks. You will know it when you see it.

6. Setting Compression: Shock

Once you have set the compression and rebound on the forks you can do the shock. Above all you are looking for a balance from front to rear, so what you are going to do is use the setting on the front as a gage for setting up the rear.
Get the bike off the stands and stand next to it with your hands on the gas cap. Have a friend stand back from the bike so they can observe the entire bike front and rear.
Push down sharply on the gas cap with both hands as hard as you can and let the bike rebound with no interference (like when you did the forks but this is for the whole bike). You may want someone else standing there to catch the bike when you throw it at them by mistake. It will take you a few tries to get this right.
What you are looking for is the front and rear of the bike to go up and down at the same time. You just set up the front so what you want to do is even up the rear. If the rear is going down slower than the front remove some compression from the shock by turning the compression adjuster counterclockwise. Turn it clockwise to add more compression if the shock is going down faster than the front. The adjuster is on the remote reservoir on the shock. On Showa shocks it is a standard screwdriver on Ohlins it is a black knob you turn with your fingers.
You are done adjusting the compression on the shock when the front and rear are going down at the same rate/time.

7. Setting Rebound: Shock

Push down on the gas cap and have your friend watch the bike again.
You are looking for the rear to rebound at the same rate as the front.
If it is to fast slow the shocks rebound down by turning the rebound adjuster clockwise. The rebound adjuster is located at the base of the shock shaft. On Showa shocks it is a standard screwdriver and on Ohlins shocks it is a black knob that goes around the shock shaft. When adjusting the Ohlins shock make sure you are pretending you are on your back looking up at the base of the shock to make sure you get the directions right (Clockwise and counterclockwise)

8. Checking Your Work

Checking your work is pretty simple. Get the bike up off the stands again and push on the gas cap with a friend watching. The bike should compress and rebound evenly front and rear. If it does you are ready to ride. If not go back and make the proper adjustments.
Tuning - Ahh tuning, here are a few simple steps to getting you bike dialed in that next level. At this point I need to tell you that you are pretty much on your own. There is a lot of “feel” involved in getting your bike set up for you, and it's impossible for me to get it down on paper. The biggest thing I can tell you is do not be afraid to think outside the box. If you start clicking this and clicking that and the bike works perfectly you have a good set up for you. Don't be worried when you bounce your bike and the front and rear are not even. The “even” set up is a great starting point, not the rule of thumb. What follows are a few steps I use to tune my forks in and then a lot of “if its doing this, do that” bullets.

Keep these things in mind:

Have fun
Record your changes
Make one change at a time
If you make a change and do not understand what it did, don't do another until you do.
Think outside the box, there is no right
Test, test, test, test
Tuning Forks
Put a zip tie around one of the fork sliders. Go ride the bike…. hard . If you do not bottom the zip tie remove one turn of preload, go ride. Repeat as necessary. It does not matter if you end up with 40mm of sag in the front. You need to use all of your travel.
If your forks are bottoming out the first time you ride it, add some compression. You never want to add preload and have less than 35mm of sag.
If when you grab the brakes the front end dives dramatically and upsets the rear end add some compression to the forks. But keep in mind if you are mashing the brakes on you will upset any set of forks, so brake smoothly.
If you end up adding a bunch of compression make sure you bounce the bike to check the balance from front to rear. It can be a bit out of balance but not a ton.
If the forks take a second to settle after you let of the brakes and you are tipping into a turn, slow the rebound down 1 click.

Tuning The Shock

If the rear end does the Ben Bostrom death weave while on the brakes speed up the rebound.
If the rear end goes grip slide, grip slide. Add compression

Checking if you have the correct springs

Once you have set the sag on your bike you can check if you have the correct springs.
Measure the free sag of the front and rear of the bike. Free sag is the sag the bike has under its own weight, without you on it. Your free sag should be 15-30% of the rider sag number. For example if your shock sag is 30mm with you on it you should have 5-10mm of free sag. If you have lets say 0mm of free sag your spring is too soft. If you have 15mm of free sag your spring is too stiff. Same goes for the forks.

Random thoughts

If you use something like a subframe or tail as a measuring point for sag make sure that it does not flex or move, this will screw up your measurements.
Check your chain tension. I have seen a lot of bikes where the chain was so tight that it limited the rear shocks travel. Obviously this is a big problem for the suspension but the biggest problem is the output bearing on your bike will get destroyed. So how do you know if your chain is adjusted correctly you ask? Well a loose chain is a happy chain, if it is not falling off it's tight enough. We run ours sloppy loose
1 πράγμα έχω να πω.....
DUfuckinCATI
4EVER!!!!!
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5os
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Εγγραφή: Τετ 02 Απρ 2008, 10:12
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Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από 5os »

η ρύθμιση αναρτήσεων είναι τέχνη και θέλει πολύ δουλειά και πειραματισμό για να την κατέχεις
το παρακάτω μπορεί να σε βοηθήσει...
Δεν έχετε τα απαραίτητα δικαιώματα για να δείτε τα συνημμένα αρχεία σε αυτή τη δημοσίευση.
5os


ΦΟΙΒΟΣ
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kosagraf
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Εγγραφή: Δευ 07 Ιουν 2010, 01:55
Gender: Male
Bike: Multistrada 1100
Other: Μπανιέρα (SH150i)
Τοποθεσία: Συνήθως ο καναπές... αλλιώς η σέλα μου!!!

Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από kosagraf »

Ευχαριστώ :thumbsup: Κάποια στιγμή θα προσπαθήσω να το κάνω... :shock: :shock:
1 πράγμα έχω να πω.....
DUfuckinCATI
4EVER!!!!!
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KRS
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Εγγραφή: Κυρ 05 Απρ 2009, 21:17
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Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από KRS »

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Βρήκα αυτό το θέμα και είπα να σκανάρω σελίδες από το ένθετο τoυ power bikes.
Κάνει αρκετά πράγματα κατανοητά,ελπίζω να βοηθήσει :hibye:

Α,και αν μου την "πέσει" καμιά Α.Ε.Π.Ι θα κάνετε ρεφενέ... :mrgreen:
Δεν έχετε τα απαραίτητα δικαιώματα για να δείτε τα συνημμένα αρχεία σε αυτή τη δημοσίευση.
-ΧΡΗΣΤΟΣ-

Οι αντρες οδηγανε κατω απο την τιμονοπλακα !!!!!

S.T.R

scuadra tryferoudia racing
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red lizard
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Εγγραφή: Κυρ 08 Φεβ 2009, 15:25
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Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από red lizard »

:thumbsup: είσαι ωραίος!
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rock n rolla_s4
Grown Ducatista
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Εγγραφή: Τετ 26 Νοέμ 2008, 23:41
Gender: Male
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Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από rock n rolla_s4 »

Θελω εδω και καιρο να κανω service στο μπροστινο και να τις σεταρω μπρος πισω αλλα ειναι μεγαλη μανουρα. Θελει μια μερα ολοκληρη στις ιδιες στροφες πανω στην Πεντελη. Σκεφτομαι να παω στο Kshok η στον Θωμα και να τα σεταρουν αυτοι. Σιγουρα δε θα γινει η ιδια δουλεια αλλα κατι θα κανει. Η γνωμη σας?
Όποια κι αν είναι η ερώτηση 990 Adventure είναι η απάντηση

Κάγκουρας
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P.lagojohn
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Εγγραφή: Παρ 11 Σεπ 2009, 07:12
Gender: Male
Bike: Monster S2
Other: 996s
Τοποθεσία: ΚΟΡΙΝΘΙΑΡΑ !!!!!

Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από P.lagojohn »

Δεν βαζει ρυθμιζομενα και εχεις το κεφαλι σου ηρεμο, δεν εχει κατσαβιδια στην κωλοτσεπη κλπ, :thumbsup: :cool:
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akalyvas
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Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από akalyvas »

και ειχα σκοπο να ανοιξω ενα τετοιο θεμα επειτα απο την βολτα που εκανα την κυριακη.λοιπον εχω το εξης θεματακι και αν μπορει να καποιος που γνωριζει να με βοηθησει.
ειμαι μπραλο και παμε με 170 και μπαινουμε στροφη. πεφτω θα 140 περιπου δεν θυμαμαι καλα γιατι αρχιζω να μην εχω μπροστινο.δηλαδη αισθανομουν οτι το μπροστινο επέπλεε ( στη συνεχεια ολο το μηχανακι κουνιοταν μεσα στην στροφη και επρεπε να κλεινω γκαζι ) και μου ανοιγε την γραμμη. ενω ολοι οι αλλοι ( tiger, tdm, multi me ohlins, 1200 adventure και bandit 1250 ) ειχανε παιχνιδακι.
στον γυρισμο βγαινουμε εθνικη και στις γρηγορες στροφες μετα απο την στιλισα μπαινουμε με 190 στις στροφες και ολοι μπαιναν ταπα ενω εγω ειχα υπερβολικη ελαφρινση στο μπροστινο και μεσα στην στροφη, με αναγκαζε να κλεισω γκαζι.
με τα λιγα που μπορω να καταλαβω ειναι σιγουρα απο μπροστινο. σημειωτεων, αν τελικιασω το μηχανακι στην ευθεια το μπροστα κανει τα ιδια, ΨΑΡΕΥΕΙ,
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P.lagojohn
Grown Ducatista
Grown Ducatista
Δημοσιεύσεις: 3488
Εγγραφή: Παρ 11 Σεπ 2009, 07:12
Gender: Male
Bike: Monster S2
Other: 996s
Τοποθεσία: ΚΟΡΙΝΘΙΑΡΑ !!!!!

Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από P.lagojohn »

Μήπως ειναι απο λάστιχα;;; Εμένα άμα τα πιεσω για ώρα κάνει αυτο που λες. Στην ευθεία μετα τα 200 αστα να πάνε είμαι ξεβρακωτος
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rock n rolla_s4
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Εγγραφή: Τετ 26 Νοέμ 2008, 23:41
Gender: Male
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Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από rock n rolla_s4 »

plagojohn έγραψε:Μήπως ειναι απο λάστιχα;;; Εμένα άμα τα πιεσω για ώρα κάνει αυτο που λες. Στην ευθεία μετα τα 200 αστα να πάνε είμαι ξεβρακωτος
Φοραμε τα ιδια λαστιχα και δεν εχω κανενα απολυτως παραπονο αγορι. Αρα κατι παει λαθος ειτε με τις πιεσεις ειτε με αναρτησεις σου
Όποια κι αν είναι η ερώτηση 990 Adventure είναι η απάντηση

Κάγκουρας
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πυξιδας990
R U a Ducatista?
R U a Ducatista?
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Εγγραφή: Τρί 10 Απρ 2012, 19:58
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Other: ΚΤΜ 990 ADV ORANGE
Τοποθεσία: ΛΕΩΝΙΔΙΟ ΤΣΑΚΩΝΙΑΣ

Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από πυξιδας990 »

akalyvas έγραψε:και ειχα σκοπο να ανοιξω ενα τετοιο θεμα επειτα απο την βολτα που εκανα την κυριακη.λοιπον εχω το εξης θεματακι και αν μπορει να καποιος που γνωριζει να με βοηθησει.
ειμαι μπραλο και παμε με 170 και μπαινουμε στροφη. πεφτω θα 140 περιπου δεν θυμαμαι καλα γιατι αρχιζω να μην εχω μπροστινο.δηλαδη αισθανομουν οτι το μπροστινο επέπλεε ( στη συνεχεια ολο το μηχανακι κουνιοταν μεσα στην στροφη και επρεπε να κλεινω γκαζι ) και μου ανοιγε την γραμμη. ενω ολοι οι αλλοι ( tiger, tdm, multi me ohlins, 1200 adventure και bandit 1250 ) ειχανε παιχνιδακι.
στον γυρισμο βγαινουμε εθνικη και στις γρηγορες στροφες μετα απο την στιλισα μπαινουμε με 190 στις στροφες και ολοι μπαιναν ταπα ενω εγω ειχα υπερβολικη ελαφρινση στο μπροστινο και μεσα στην στροφη, με αναγκαζε να κλεισω γκαζι.
με τα λιγα που μπορω να καταλαβω ειναι σιγουρα απο μπροστινο. σημειωτεων, αν τελικιασω το μηχανακι στην ευθεια το μπροστα κανει τα ιδια, ΨΑΡΕΥΕΙ,
σφιξε λιγο συμπιεση και επαναφορα και μην πειραζεις την προσφορτιση.................................επισης μην σφιγεις το τιμονι,χαλαρα να αποσβενει μονο του.
επισης το βιβλιαρακι του power bikes ειναι must.
δεν φευγουμε εμεις-να φυγουν αυτοι
βορρας-νοτος,βαλτε βενζινα..
http://www.mybike.gr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.advrider.gr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.facebook.com/groups/340966959385723/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1535032233422647/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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dio
Grown Ducatista
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Εγγραφή: Σάβ 26 Απρ 2008, 15:02

Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από dio »

Για αρχή γυρίστε (όλοι όσοι έχετε προβλήματα) τις αναρτήσεις σας στις ρυθμίσεις του κατασκευαστή. Με την προϋπόθεση πως είναι σε καλή κατάσταση και έχουν κάνει τα σέρβις τους οι μαμά ρυθμίσεις είναι μια καλή αρχή. Από κει και πέρα κάντετ αλλαγές σιγά-σιγά και ένα πράγμα τη φορά !Και πάντα να αποφεύγετε τις υπερβολές και τα τέζα σφιξίματα. Είναι προτιμότερο να είναι λίγο μαλακό και απλά να "βαρκάρει" παρά να είναι τσιμέντο και να διώξει απροειδοποίητα εκεί που δεν το περιμένεις...
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brutos
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Εγγραφή: Τετ 10 Απρ 2013, 16:26
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Other: γυμνή ιταλίδα

Re: Σωστή ρύθμιση ανάρτησης

Δημοσίευση από brutos »

http://bert.hollingside.com/temp/f3/__w ... nSetup.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ενδιαφέρον άρθρο για να ξεκινήσει κάποιος...
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